User talk:MikeMol/Multilingual

From Rosetta Code


Are you going to ever introduce a multilingual in Rosetta Code?

A what? --Michael Mol 18:46, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
Like into Wikipedia. Sorry, i.e. adding multi-language. --DCamer 18:52, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
I'm still not clear on what you're trying to say. Is English your best language? If not, try giving a full description in a language you're comfortable with, and I'll throw it through, e.g. Babelfish and possibly another native speaker. Might be easier that way. --Michael Mol 18:55, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
Do you plan to add to the site other languages except English? (comfortable to me: Планируете ли вы добавлять на сайт другие языки кроме Английского?). --DCamer 19:01, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
Ah, I see what you mean! I don't know how practical that would be on MediaWiki. The source code itself should be common between all human languages, even if the individual descriptions and the rest of the pages would not be. I don't think it will happen while the site runs on MediaWiki, but it's definitely something I would plan to allow for if/when a suitable alternative can be implemented. --Michael Mol 19:06, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
You could do it via subdomains like Wikipedia does -- like vs -- Eriksiers 19:10, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
That's not the problem. The problem is that the core content, the lang-by-task matrix of examples, is reasonably correct for all languages, but the supporting description and explanation isn't. The way the examples are currently presented on the site, we would see the example code for any lang-task point diverge, without an effective way to resolve updates and differences between the various languages. (Granted, even with code fixedly common between all human languages, you still run into quirks of variable names and comments. Adding locale support to source code presentation would be a daunting (though interesting) task in itself!) --Michael Mol 19:40, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
I see. Yes, you're right, Mediawiki is probably unsuitable as-is. Oh well. -- Eriksiers 20:22, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
So there is extension Interwiki and manual :). I tried on the local machine - no problem. --DCamer 21:26, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
We have InterWiki, but the problem is that we'd want to transclude the code itself across all languages, because the code itself should be common to all human languages. There are two problems with transclusion. First, the code examples would need to be separated from page content (which I already believe needs to happen, personally), with the English and Russian versions of the site transcluding from them. Second, with the transclusion, it's not trivial to make a change to a code example; you would have to navigate to the sourced page and make the change there. (If that second part weren't a problem, I would have already addressed the first part by breaking out the code examples into the "Example:" namespace I've already created on the site.) --Michael Mol 21:34, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
  • But why the code to separate from the main text? So that the changes in the code would be reflected simultaneously in all languages? --DCamer 10:33, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
Yes, exactly. Otherwise, it becas a conflict resolution problem much like that of source control, but without the aid of automated toos. --Michael Mol 11:23, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
  • Then it is possible to create the code in the various article and to refer to it through the template. {{Example:Code1}}. --DCamer 11:55, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
Translated from earlier, Google Language Tools: Есть две проблемы с transclusion. Во-первых, примеры кода, должны быть отделены от содержимого страницы (о котором я уже считаю, должно произойти, лично), с английской и русской версии сайта transcluding от них. Во-вторых, transclusion, это не тривиально внести изменения в пример кода, вы должны перейти на страницу источников и внести изменения там. (Если это вторая часть не проблема, я бы уже обратились к первой части, разбив из примеров кода в "Пример:" имен я уже создал на сайте.) - Майкл Мол 21:34, 8 апреля 2010 (UTC) --Michael Mol 12:00, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
Trying again. (I passed it backward and forward through Google until it came back saying what I was trying to say.): Есть две проблемы с transclusion. Во-первых, образцы должны быть отделены от содержимого страницы (о котором я уже считаю, должно произойти), с английской и русской версии сайта transcluding от них. Во-вторых, это не тривиально внести изменения в теле шаблона от страницы, использующие этот шаблон, надо перейти на страницу шаблона и сделать один изменим там. (Если второй половине не было проблем, я бы уже implemanted первую часть, разбив примеры кода из в "Пример:" пространство имен, что я уже создал на сайте.) --Michael Mol 18:36, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
As you wish, however, often themselves examples contain of comments and text strings, that should also be translated, so it turns out that problems with sample no. If the project has become multilingual and international, it was be cool! :)
P.S. I apologize for bump post. --DCamer 20:52, 15 April 2011 (UTC)
No problem. I wish we could do it, but it'd be a _lot_ of maintenance and overhead to be done properly. I know there's a massive following from your area, but I don't have the resources to do the thing properly. --Michael Mol 20:56, 15 April 2011 (UTC)
  • Excuse me, but about what resources are you talking? Money? To attract the Staff? Or to technical side? With respect to the second, they are not needed, just a subdomain, and multiple directives in LocalSettings.php. With respect to Staff: the people there is, are able to control the language section. --DCamer 11:41, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
  • The resources to get the wiki switched over to a semantically structured and constructed layout. See Rosetta Code:Village Pump/Semantic MediaWiki#Discussion, particularly the part where it talks about using Hough Transform as a test environment. That's the single largest thing that makes this difficult to do. If that were taken care of, most of the rest of the maintenance headaches would vanish, and the rest manageable, as long as there were some dedicated folks to help maintain the RU side of internationalization. (I also expect there to be friction and communications difficulties across internationalizations with respect to task clarification, but that's a problem that can be addressed once it happens) --Michael Mol 13:26, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
  • In addition, in the interwiki there is «transwiki transclusion», allows the use pages from the other wiki as templates. --DCamer 12:06, 16 April 2011 (UTC)