User talk:Gerard Schildberger: Difference between revisions

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(→‎RC POP.OUT, differences: added more comments about spelling of computer programming languages.)
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: I just re-ran my REXX program and updated the '''RC_POP.OUT''' file (here on Rosetta Code).   I don't know where you found that my list (REXX) has only 650 languages.   From the data posted to Rosetta Code (from my REXX execution), it shows 651 entries, as well as my count from looking/counting languages from the original file on my computer.   When you say "your list has only 650", how (and where) did you determine that?   -- [[User:Gerard Schildberger|Gerard Schildberger]] ([[User talk:Gerard Schildberger|talk]]) 05:04, 4 December 2017 (UTC)
: I just re-ran my REXX program and updated the '''RC_POP.OUT''' file (here on Rosetta Code).   I don't know where you found that my list (REXX) has only 650 languages.   From the data posted to Rosetta Code (from my REXX execution), it shows 651 entries, as well as my count from looking/counting languages from the original file on my computer.   When you say "your list has only 650", how (and where) did you determine that?   -- [[User:Gerard Schildberger|Gerard Schildberger]] ([[User talk:Gerard Schildberger|talk]]) 05:04, 4 December 2017 (UTC)

::There are 650 rows in the table in the version of November 17th [http://rosettacode.org/mw/index.php?title=RC_POP.OUT&oldid=256094 here]. I copy-pasted into Notepad++, there are 650 rows, period. Now that you have revised the list, there are 651 languages. I can also tell you the difference between the two lists: 646 languages are identical, and for the remaining, the older one has '''Déjá Vu, FORTRAN, N/t/roff, Spin''', while the newer one has '''Blast, Déjà Vu, Fortran, ML, Panoramic'''. [[User:Eoraptor|Eoraptor]] ([[User talk:Eoraptor|talk]]) 08:04, 4 December 2017 (UTC)
::There are 650 rows in the table in the version of November 17th [http://rosettacode.org/mw/index.php?title=RC_POP.OUT&oldid=256094 here]. I copy-pasted into Notepad++, there are 650 rows, period. Now that you have revised the list, there are 651 languages. I can also tell you the difference between the two lists: 646 languages are identical, and for the remaining, the older one has '''Déjá Vu, FORTRAN, N/t/roff, Spin''', while the newer one has '''Blast, Déjà Vu, Fortran, ML, Panoramic'''. [[User:Eoraptor|Eoraptor]] ([[User talk:Eoraptor|talk]]) 08:04, 4 December 2017 (UTC)

::: Before I updated the REXX's output file, I looked at the (original) OUTPUT source (for November 17<sup>th</sub>, 2017) &nbsp; and verified that there was 651 programming languages. &nbsp; Now, it is possible that I made a cut-'n-paste finger flub (that ended up with 650 entries on Rosetta Code). &nbsp; -- [[User:Gerard Schildberger|Gerard Schildberger]] ([[User talk:Gerard Schildberger|talk]]) 10:49, 4 December 2017 (UTC)

: As for SETL4 and FORTRAN appearing in my list, my REXX program ignores and differences in capitalization of the languages on Rosetta Code. &nbsp; Because some languages appear in different spellings (as far as capitalization), I use the first spelling that was encountered in the input file. &nbsp; So, that means, somewhere in the Rosetta Code &nbsp; ''tasks'' &nbsp; and/or &nbsp; ''draft tasks'', &nbsp; there is &nbsp; ''a'' &nbsp; language entry (example) that has '''Fortran''' spelled as '''FORTRAN'''. &nbsp; The same with '''SETL4'''. &nbsp; Ditto for '''Déjá Vu''' and others. &nbsp; A few years ago (2012), I entered a new discussion page &nbsp; '''case of names of programming languages''' &nbsp; for the task '''Rosetta Code/Rank languages by popularity'''. &nbsp; I had noticed that some computer programming languages has various spellings, either via different capitalizations, or by different accent characters, or in some cases, different characters, such as using the Greek character &nbsp; '''µ''' &nbsp; in &nbsp; '''µC++''', &nbsp; some people used the extended ASCII character (probably from DOS code page 437 or equivalent), other people used the Unicode character. &nbsp; I translated Unicode characters to what my REXX program was using, DOS code page 437. &nbsp; This was especially problematic with &nbsp; '''Déjá Vu''', &nbsp; where (various) different accent characters where used. &nbsp; Two programming languages ('''Caché''', '''MK-61/52''', and '''Uyir''') were (wholly or in part) entered in Unicode, and I had to translate those to Latin characters so that I could handle them in my REXX program. &nbsp; I asked for clarification (in that discussion section), but nobody followed up, and as far as I could tell, hardly any misspellings were corrected with the exception of '''PL/I'''. &nbsp; I have said (posted) previously, that I am not the spelling police for computer programming languages &nbsp; (except for '''REXX''', which I laboriously tracked down and corrected). &nbsp; For a followup on this, see the source for the language entry '''REXX''' on the task page for &nbsp; '''Rosetta Code/Rank languages by popularity'''. &nbsp; Because I didn't know (for the most part) the correct (or official) spellings for any computer programming language, I elected to capitalized all computer programming languages, and just use the first computer programming language spelling encountered as the version used in the REXX program's output. &nbsp; Some spellings for programming languages have changed over the years, '''FORTRAN''' being one of them. &nbsp; Other misspellings are sometimes obvious, but I did not want to handle the various spellings on a case-by-case basis, and elected to follow the motto, &nbsp; ''first come, first served'' &nbsp; (that is, use the first spelling version as the one used in the REXX program's output). &nbsp; By the way, &nbsp; '''Uyir''' &nbsp; ''is'' &nbsp; listed in the REXX output, it's ranked at 509 (tied) with 3 entries (as of this writing). &nbsp; As for &nbsp; '''Déjà Vu''', &nbsp; I'll change the REXX program to use the correct accent character. &nbsp; -- [[User:Gerard Schildberger|Gerard Schildberger]] ([[User talk:Gerard Schildberger|talk]]) 05:04, 4 December 2017 (UTC)
: As for SETL4 and FORTRAN appearing in my list, my REXX program ignores and differences in capitalization of the languages on Rosetta Code. &nbsp; Because some languages appear in different spellings (as far as capitalization), I use the first spelling that was encountered in the input file. &nbsp; So, that means, somewhere in the Rosetta Code &nbsp; ''tasks'' &nbsp; and/or &nbsp; ''draft tasks'', &nbsp; there is &nbsp; ''a'' &nbsp; language entry (example) that has '''Fortran''' spelled as '''FORTRAN'''. &nbsp; The same with '''SETL4'''. &nbsp; Ditto for '''Déjá Vu''' and others. &nbsp; A few years ago (2012), I entered a new discussion page &nbsp; '''case of names of programming languages''' &nbsp; for the task '''Rosetta Code/Rank languages by popularity'''. &nbsp; I had noticed that some computer programming languages has various spellings, either via different capitalizations, or by different accent characters, or in some cases, different characters, such as using the Greek character &nbsp; '''µ''' &nbsp; in &nbsp; '''µC++''', &nbsp; some people used the extended ASCII character (probably from DOS code page 437 or equivalent), other people used the Unicode character. &nbsp; I translated Unicode characters to what my REXX program was using, DOS code page 437. &nbsp; This was especially problematic with &nbsp; '''Déjá Vu''', &nbsp; where (various) different accent characters where used. &nbsp; Two programming languages ('''Caché''', '''MK-61/52''', and '''Uyir''') were (wholly or in part) entered in Unicode, and I had to translate those to Latin characters so that I could handle them in my REXX program. &nbsp; I asked for clarification (in that discussion section), but nobody followed up, and as far as I could tell, hardly any misspellings were corrected with the exception of '''PL/I'''. &nbsp; I have said (posted) previously, that I am not the spelling police for computer programming languages &nbsp; (except for '''REXX''', which I laboriously tracked down and corrected). &nbsp; For a followup on this, see the source for the language entry '''REXX''' on the task page for &nbsp; '''Rosetta Code/Rank languages by popularity'''. &nbsp; Because I didn't know (for the most part) the correct (or official) spellings for any computer programming language, I elected to capitalized all computer programming languages, and just use the first computer programming language spelling encountered as the version used in the REXX program's output. &nbsp; Some spellings for programming languages have changed over the years, '''FORTRAN''' being one of them. &nbsp; Other misspellings are sometimes obvious, but I did not want to handle the various spellings on a case-by-case basis, and elected to follow the motto, &nbsp; ''first come, first served'' &nbsp; (that is, use the first spelling version as the one used in the REXX program's output). &nbsp; By the way, &nbsp; '''Uyir''' &nbsp; ''is'' &nbsp; listed in the REXX output, it's ranked at 509 (tied) with 3 entries (as of this writing). &nbsp; As for &nbsp; '''Déjà Vu''', &nbsp; I'll change the REXX program to use the correct accent character. &nbsp; -- [[User:Gerard Schildberger|Gerard Schildberger]] ([[User talk:Gerard Schildberger|talk]]) 05:04, 4 December 2017 (UTC)

::It's not about being a "spelling police". Rosetta Code titles are case-dependent, so it may happen that two pages have the same name with a different spelling. And it does happen, with categories not having the same number of members. Actually FORTRAN was not even a registered category, it's a mistake by some Rosetta Code user: a language entry written with FORTRAN, which has a red link since the category was not created, but which still appears in category lists (a kind of bug of the wikicode I guess, I believe I have seen this on Wikipedia too). Since your list is given as a reference for the task, it should be as correct as possible. I was not aware of this Unicode problem with REXX, but it puzzles me to use for reference a language that is not able to spell the languages correctly. How one is expected to check his own output then?
::It's not about being a "spelling police". Rosetta Code titles are case-dependent, so it may happen that two pages have the same name with a different spelling. And it does happen, with categories not having the same number of members. Actually FORTRAN was not even a registered category, it's a mistake by some Rosetta Code user: a language entry written with FORTRAN, which has a red link since the category was not created, but which still appears in category lists (a kind of bug of the wikicode I guess, I believe I have seen this on Wikipedia too). Since your list is given as a reference for the task, it should be as correct as possible. I was not aware of this Unicode problem with REXX, but it puzzles me to use for reference a language that is not able to spell the languages correctly. How one is expected to check his own output then?


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::[[User:Eoraptor|Eoraptor]] ([[User talk:Eoraptor|talk]]) 08:04, 4 December 2017 (UTC)
::[[User:Eoraptor|Eoraptor]] ([[User talk:Eoraptor|talk]]) 08:04, 4 December 2017 (UTC)

::: Nowhere in the REXX program is there an enforcement of the correct spelling, nor is any determination attempted for that matter. &nbsp; At the time, the REXX code (that I entered, version 1) honored the spelling as per the capitalization, and then later, I changed the REXX code to ignore the capitalization and use whatever spelling was first encountered in the appropriate Wiki file. &nbsp; Later, I added transformations of Unicode characters that were translated in the best manner possible to Latin characters or to various accented characters (letters?) that were included in (DOS) code page 437. &nbsp; This was a close to being "correct" as possible within what was available within the specifications of the code page that was being used with/for REXX at that time. &nbsp; I had assumed that if a reader observed an entry for '''FORTRAN''' or '''Fortran''', they would assume it was the same computer programming language. &nbsp; Programming languages entered as Unicode &nbsp; ''and'' &nbsp; also ASCII are problematic, and I built a hand-coded list of a translate table between the two. &nbsp; This translation is further complicated when some programming languages use &nbsp; ''different'' &nbsp; alphabets for the same language &nbsp; (or different Unicode characters, for that matter). &nbsp; It is these situations that I was alluding to when I used the phrase &nbsp; ''spelling police''. &nbsp; If there isn't a common (accepted by all) spelling of a computer programming language, it would be a never-ending job to have a &nbsp; ''correct'' &nbsp; list. &nbsp; Whether or not that REXX can't handle Unicode characters, how would one handle the situation when different Unicode characters are specified? &nbsp; I tried to do the best I could with the limitations of not being able to use Unicode characters within the REXX language (when storing literals). &nbsp; Keep in mind that I coded the REXX entry to provide a complete list, as at that time, I couldn't observe what the ranking was for the REXX language as nobody had shown a ranking of computer programming languages on Rosetta Code that went beyond (the top) 15 entries. &nbsp; If someone had shown a complete listing, these "misspelling" errors might've/would've been addressed (or even resolved/fixed) at a much earlier time &nbsp; (and there wouldn't be a REXX entry). &nbsp; But, to answer your query about checking one's output when the languages aren't correctly spelled, I would suggest that most of the time, it's a matter of capitalization. &nbsp; If the spelling error is more dramatic, then use the closest spelling that conveys the name of the programming language as the reference. &nbsp; Aside from all that, I'll entertain any suggestions that would solve or address this issue within the confines of the REXX language. &nbsp; -- [[User:Gerard Schildberger|Gerard Schildberger]] ([[User talk:Gerard Schildberger|talk]]) 10:49, 4 December 2017 (UTC)
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