# Talk:Four is the number of letters in the ...

## the first 2,202 words of the never-ending sentence

To aid in diagnosing any problems with this task, here is the output from a modified REXX programming entry that shows the current state of the never-ending sentence when computing/finding the number of letters in the 2,202^{nd} word.

The output was shown (wrapped, with word-splits on the 100-byte boundaries) on a terminal screen that was exactly 100 bytes wide.

11 is the number of letters in the word 2202 [ninety-ninth,] length of sentence= 13954 1 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 ....+....0....+....0....+....0....+....0....+....0....+....0....+....0....+....0....+....0....+....0 Four is the number of letters in the first word of this sentence, two in the second, three in the th ird, six in the fourth, two in the fifth, seven in the sixth, two in the seventh, three in the eight h, five in the ninth, four in the tenth, two in the eleventh, four in the twelfth, eight in the thir teenth, three in the fourteenth, two in the fifteenth, three in the sixteenth, six in the seventeent h, five in the eighteenth, two in the nineteenth, three in the twentieth, five in the twenty-first, three in the twenty-second, two in the twenty-third, three in the twenty-fourth, six in the twenty-f ifth, three in the twenty-sixth, two in the twenty-seventh, three in the twenty-eighth, five in the twenty-ninth, five in the thirtieth, two in the thirty-first, three in the thirty-second, five in th e thirty-third, three in the thirty-fourth, two in the thirty-fifth, three in the thirty-sixth, seve n in the thirty-seventh, five in the thirty-eighth, two in the thirty-ninth, three in the fortieth, six in the forty-first, four in the forty-second, two in the forty-third, three in the forty-fourth, five in the forty-fifth, four in the forty-sixth, two in the forty-seventh, three in the forty-eigh th, five in the forty-ninth, three in the fiftieth, two in the fifty-first, three in the fifty-secon d, eight in the fifty-third, four in the fifty-fourth, two in the fifty-fifth, three in the fifty-si xth, seven in the fifty-seventh, five in the fifty-eighth, two in the fifty-ninth, three in the sixt ieth, ten in the sixty-first, five in the sixty-second, two in the sixty-third, three in the sixty-f ourth, ten in the sixty-fifth, three in the sixty-sixth, two in the sixty-seventh, three in the sixt y-eighth, nine in the sixty-ninth, five in the seventieth, two in the seventy-first, three in the se venty-second, nine in the seventy-third, three in the seventy-fourth, two in the seventy-fifth, thre e in the seventy-sixth, eleven in the seventy-seventh, four in the seventy-eighth, two in the sevent y-ninth, three in the eightieth, ten in the eighty-first, three in the eighty-second, two in the eig hty-third, three in the eighty-fourth, ten in the eighty-fifth, five in the eighty-sixth, two in the eighty-seventh, three in the eighty-eighth, nine in the eighty-ninth, four in the ninetieth, two in the ninety-first, three in the ninety-second, eleven in the ninety-third, five in the ninety-fourth , two in the ninety-fifth, three in the ninety-sixth, twelve in the ninety-seventh, three in the nin ety-eighth, two in the ninety-ninth, three in the one hundredth, eleven in the one hundred first, fi ve in the one hundred second, two in the one hundred third, three in the one hundred fourth, twelve in the one hundred fifth, three in the one hundred sixth, two in the one hundred seventh, three in t he one hundred eighth, eleven in the one hundred ninth, five in the one hundred tenth, two in the on e hundred eleventh, three in the one hundred twelfth, eleven in the one hundred thirteenth, three in the one hundred fourteenth, two in the one hundred fifteenth, three in the one hundred sixteenth, t hirteen in the one hundred seventeenth, five in the one hundred eighteenth, two in the one hundred n ineteenth, three in the one hundred twentieth, twelve in the one hundred twenty-first, four in the o ne hundred twenty-second, two in the one hundred twenty-third, three in the one hundred twenty-fourt h, eleven in the one hundred twenty-fifth, four in the one hundred twenty-sixth, two in the one hund red twenty-seventh, three in the one hundred twenty-eighth, nine in the one hundred twenty-ninth, th ree in the one hundred thirtieth, two in the one hundred thirty-first, three in the one hundred thir ty-second, eleven in the one hundred thirty-third, five in the one hundred thirty-fourth, two in the one hundred thirty-fifth, three in the one hundred thirty-sixth, twelve in the one hundred thirty-s eventh, four in the one hundred thirty-eighth, two in the one hundred thirty-ninth, three in the one hundred fortieth, eleven in the one hundred forty-first, five in the one hundred forty-second, two in the one hundred forty-third, three in the one hundred forty-fourth, twelve in the one hundred for ty-fifth, three in the one hundred forty-sixth, two in the one hundred forty-seventh, three in the o ne hundred forty-eighth, eleven in the one hundred forty-ninth, five in the one hundred fiftieth, tw o in the one hundred fifty-first, three in the one hundred fifty-second, eleven in the one hundred f ifty-third, five in the one hundred fifty-fourth, two in the one hundred fifty-fifth, three in the o ne hundred fifty-sixth, thirteen in the one hundred fifty-seventh, four in the one hundred fifty-eig hth, two in the one hundred fifty-ninth, three in the one hundred sixtieth, twelve in the one hundre d sixty-first, three in the one hundred sixty-second, two in the one hundred sixty-third, three in t he one hundred sixty-fourth, eleven in the one hundred sixty-fifth, five in the one hundred sixty-si xth, two in the one hundred sixty-seventh, three in the one hundred sixty-eighth, eight in the one h undred sixty-ninth, three in the one hundred seventieth, two in the one hundred seventy-first, three in the one hundred seventy-second, ten in the one hundred seventy-third, four in the one hundred se venty-fourth, two in the one hundred seventy-fifth, three in the one hundred seventy-sixth, eleven i n the one hundred seventy-seventh, three in the one hundred seventy-eighth, two in the one hundred s eventy-ninth, three in the one hundred eightieth, ten in the one hundred eighty-first, five in the o ne hundred eighty-second, two in the one hundred eighty-third, three in the one hundred eighty-fourt h, eleven in the one hundred eighty-fifth, four in the one hundred eighty-sixth, two in the one hund red eighty-seventh, three in the one hundred eighty-eighth, ten in the one hundred eighty-ninth, fou r in the one hundred ninetieth, two in the one hundred ninety-first, three in the one hundred ninety -second, ten in the one hundred ninety-third, three in the one hundred ninety-fourth, two in the one hundred ninety-fifth, three in the one hundred ninety-sixth, twelve in the one hundred ninety-seven th, five in the one hundred ninety-eighth, two in the one hundred ninety-ninth, three in the two hun dredth, eleven in the two hundred first, four in the two hundred second, two in the two hundred thir d, three in the two hundred fourth, ten in the two hundred fifth, five in the two hundred sixth, two in the two hundred seventh, three in the two hundred eighth, eight in the two hundred ninth, three in the two hundred tenth, two in the two hundred eleventh, three in the two hundred twelfth, ten in the two hundred thirteenth, five in the two hundred fourteenth, two in the two hundred fifteenth, th ree in the two hundred sixteenth, eleven in the two hundred seventeenth, five in the two hundred eig hteenth, two in the two hundred nineteenth, three in the two hundred twentieth, ten in the two hundr ed twenty-first, four in the two hundred twenty-second, two in the two hundred twenty-third, three i n the two hundred twenty-fourth, eleven in the two hundred twenty-fifth, three in the two hundred tw enty-sixth, two in the two hundred twenty-seventh, three in the two hundred twenty-eighth, ten in th e two hundred twenty-ninth, five in the two hundred thirtieth, two in the two hundred thirty-first, three in the two hundred thirty-second, ten in the two hundred thirty-third, five in the two hundred thirty-fourth, two in the two hundred thirty-fifth, three in the two hundred thirty-sixth, twelve i n the two hundred thirty-seventh, four in the two hundred thirty-eighth, two in the two hundred thir ty-ninth, three in the two hundred fortieth, eleven in the two hundred forty-first, three in the two hundred forty-second, two in the two hundred forty-third, three in the two hundred forty-fourth, te n in the two hundred forty-fifth, five in the two hundred forty-sixth, two in the two hundred forty- seventh, three in the two hundred forty-eighth, eight in the two hundred forty-ninth, three in the t wo hundred fiftieth, two in the two hundred fifty-first, three in the two hundred fifty-second, ten in the two hundred fifty-third, four in the two hundred fifty-fourth, two in the two hundred fifty-f ifth, three in the two hundred fifty-sixth, eleven in the two hundred fifty-seventh, three in the tw o hundred fifty-eighth, two in the two hundred fifty-ninth, three in the two hundred sixtieth, ten i n the two hundred sixty-first, five in the two hundred sixty-second, two in the two hundred sixty-th ird, three in the two hundred sixty-fourth, eleven in the two hundred sixty-fifth, three in the two hundred sixty-sixth, two in the two hundred sixty-seventh, three in the two hundred sixty-eighth, te n in the two hundred sixty-ninth, five in the two hundred seventieth, two in the two hundred seventy -first, three in the two hundred seventy-second, ten in the two hundred seventy-third, three in the two hundred seventy-fourth, two in the two hundred seventy-fifth, three in the two hundred seventy-s ixth, twelve in the two hundred seventy-seventh, five in the two hundred seventy-eighth, two in the two hundred seventy-ninth, three in the two hundred eightieth, eleven in the two hundred eighty-firs t, four in the two hundred eighty-second, two in the two hundred eighty-third, three in the two hund red eighty-fourth, ten in the two hundred eighty-fifth, four in the two hundred eighty-sixth, two in the two hundred eighty-seventh, three in the two hundred eighty-eighth, ten in the two hundred eigh ty-ninth, three in the two hundred ninetieth, two in the two hundred ninety-first, three in the two hundred ninety-second, twelve in the two hundred ninety-third, five in the two hundred ninety-fourth , two in the two hundred ninety-fifth, three in the two hundred ninety-sixth, thirteen in the two hu ndred ninety-seventh, four in the two hundred ninety-eighth, two in the two hundred ninety-ninth, th ree in the three hundredth, twelve in the three hundred first, five in the three hundred second, two in the three hundred third, three in the three hundred fourth, thirteen in the three hundred fifth, three in the three hundred sixth, two in the three hundred seventh, three in the three hundred eigh th, twelve in the three hundred ninth, five in the three hundred tenth, two in the three hundred ele venth, three in the three hundred twelfth, twelve in the three hundred thirteenth, six in the three hundred fourteenth, two in the three hundred fifteenth, three in the three hundred sixteenth, fourte en in the three hundred seventeenth, four in the three hundred eighteenth, two in the three hundred nineteenth, three in the three hundred twentieth, thirteen in the three hundred twenty-first, three in the three hundred twenty-second, two in the three hundred twenty-third, three in the three hundre d twenty-fourth, twelve in the three hundred twenty-fifth, five in the three hundred twenty-sixth, t wo in the three hundred twenty-seventh, three in the three hundred twenty-eighth, nine in the three hundred twenty-ninth, three in the three hundred thirtieth, two in the three hundred thirty-first, t hree in the three hundred thirty-second, eleven in the three hundred thirty-third, five in the three hundred thirty-fourth, two in the three hundred thirty-fifth, three in the three hundred thirty-six th, twelve in the three hundred thirty-seventh, three in the three hundred thirty-eighth, two in the three hundred thirty-ninth, three in the three hundred fortieth, eleven in the three hundred forty- first, five in the three hundred forty-second, two in the three hundred forty-third, three in the th ree hundred forty-fourth, twelve in the three hundred forty-fifth, three in the three hundred forty- sixth, two in the three hundred forty-seventh, three in the three hundred forty-eighth, eleven in th e three hundred forty-ninth, four in the three hundred fiftieth, two in the three hundred fifty-firs t, three in the three hundred fifty-second, eleven in the three hundred fifty-third, three in the th ree hundred fifty-fourth, two in the three hundred fifty-fifth, three in the three hundred fifty-six th, thirteen in the three hundred fifty-seventh, five in the three hundred fifty-eighth, two in the three hundred fifty-ninth, three in the three hundred sixtieth, twelve in the three hundred sixty-fi rst, four in the three hundred sixty-second, two in the three hundred sixty-third, three in the thre e hundred sixty-fourth, eleven in the three hundred sixty-fifth, four in the three hundred sixty-six th, two in the three hundred sixty-seventh, three in the three hundred sixty-eighth, nine in the thr ee hundred sixty-ninth, three in the three hundred seventieth, two in the three hundred seventy-firs t, three in the three hundred seventy-second, eleven in the three hundred seventy-third, five in the three hundred seventy-fourth, two in the three hundred seventy-fifth, three in the three hundred se venty-sixth, twelve in the three hundred seventy-seventh, six in the three hundred seventy-eighth, t wo in the three hundred seventy-ninth, three in the three hundred eightieth, eleven in the three hun dred eighty-first, four in the three hundred eighty-second, two in the three hundred eighty-third, t hree in the three hundred eighty-fourth, twelve in the three hundred eighty-fifth, three in the thre e hundred eighty-sixth, two in the three hundred eighty-seventh, three in the three hundred eighty-e ighth, eleven in the three hundred eighty-ninth, five in the three hundred ninetieth, two in the thr ee hundred ninety-first, three in the three hundred ninety-second, eleven in the three hundred ninet y-third, six in the three hundred ninety-fourth, two in the three hundred ninety-fifth, three in the three hundred ninety-sixth, thirteen in the three hundred ninety-seventh, five in the three hundred ninety-eighth, two in the three hundred ninety-ninth, 1 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 ....+....0....+....0....+....0....+....0....+....0....+....0....+....0....+....0....+....0....+....0

Hopefully, the above output is correct. -- Gerard Schildberger (talk)

## What's in a number?

It might be good to extend your definition of numbers; for instance there is no "and" in 387. (I would have said, incorrectly for this task, *"three hundred and eighty-seven"*). --Paddy3118 (talk) 19:39, 13 September 2017 (UTC)

I assume you meant to say *what's in the (English) spelling of a number?*.

It seems that there are a number of people that seem to prefer using an interjected *and* between the **hundreds** digit and the **tens** and **units** digits. This interjection is wrong (in my opinion), but it still seems to be allowed by others and people tolerate it as acceptable either way. I was in the banking arena for a time, and the only time **and** was demanded was when a financial number was spoken (voiced), such as $611.50**: **

six hundred elevenandfifty cents

or

six hundred eleven dollarsandfifty cents

It was the inclusion of the **and** that gave the listener an audible clue to the end of the (whole) part of the number and separated it from it's (decimal) fraction.

Another case in point: you see the numbers: 300 87

Another person asks, "what do see?"

And you say, "three hundred and eighty-seven."

Still another case in point: you see: 387

Another person asks, "what do see?"

And you say, "three hundred and eighty-seven."

Same answer, but an incorrect interpretation by the listener.

It can be seen that the use of superfluous **and***s* can cause misunderstandings and misinterpretations, and bank tellers and cash register attendants are taught to be exact when counting financial numbers (as receiving sums, making change). At least, they used to be taught. A lot of (newer) cash registers automatically give change from a tendered amount, and most tellers don't even count the change anymore. (sigh).

Of course, some cash registers just dump the coins in a tray in front of the customer, thereby precluding the teller from counting the change.

Note that not all people (of authority) agree on the spelling of numbers; *The Chicago Manual of Style* for instance, uses the superfluous **and**.

Also, there is a mention of such sequences (as the *four-is*, *Eban*, and *Aronson*) somewhere in the *The On-Line Encyclopedia of Integer Sequences® (OEIS®)* that says that sequences that use the English words of spelling out numbers can be problematic as there isn't an agreed upon way of spelling large numbers. (I search and searched, and I cannot find where I saw that mention in OEIS.)

Furthermore, note that the **OEIS**® entry **A072425** is incorrect.

" * The four-is sequence merely counts the letters in the words of the generating sentence. * "

Well, any-a-ways, I think something should be added to this Rosetta Code's preamble, but I'm unsure on how to word such a mandate without starting a long discussion on the subject. Any suggestions?
-- Gerard Schildberger (talk) 21:25, 13 September 2017 (UTC)

What about adding this to the task's preamble:

For the purposes of this task, noandwords are to be used when spelling a (English) word for a number.

-- Gerard Schildberger (talk) 00:49, 14 September 2017 (UTC)

## Short scale

The short scale numbering system (or as the task calls it, "the American version") has been used in the UK since 1974, and the Oxford English Dictionary notes that "milliard" is "a term now largely superseded by billion" in UK English.

I suggest that rather than saying "Furthermore, the American version of numbers will be used here (as opposed to the British). 2,000,000,000 is two billion, not two milliard." it would be better to say "Furthermore, the short scale numbering system (i.e. 2,000,000,000 is two billion) will be used here", with a link to the relevant Wikipedia page wp:Long and short scales. --GordonCharlton (talk) 08:39, 16 June 2021 (UTC)

- As this has not prompted any disagreement, I have made the change.

--GordonCharlton (talk) 20:20, 12 September 2023 (UTC)