View source for Talk:Calendar - for "REAL" programmers

==Delete?==

Far too specific. --[[User:Paddy3118|Paddy3118]] 03:35, 31 May 2011 (UTC)
:Looks like maybe it's just for fun maybe. I suggest removing the task tag and moving it to a subpage of the user who made it's user page. --[[User:Mwn3d|Mwn3d]] 03:45, 31 May 2011 (UTC)

I kind of disagree.  Programming on a 6-bit (aka UPPERCASE only) platform is a legitimate pursuit.  The K&R C programming language specifically permitted it, so to also PL/I, FORTRAN, COBOL... etc.  There were and are still many legitimate CPU architectures that are intrinsically 6-bit, hence UPPERCASE.

:I agree that it should be deleted.  This is an absurd requirement and is totally uninteresting code-wise (either the language is case-sensitive or it isn't) ... even in the unlikely event that you care about computers with 6-bit words these days, you could always write a compiler that accepted ASCII or even Unicode source, loading it into multi-word encodings.  (Or more likely you would just cross-compile, since you wouldn't want to actually do your work on a 6-bit machine nowadays.) [[User:Stevengj|— Steven G. Johnson]] ([[User talk:Stevengj|talk]]) 15:50, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

===Examples===

;Example 12-bit computer architectures
*[[wp:PDP-8|PDP-8]]
*The [[wp:Intersil 6100|Intersil 6100]] family of microprocessor

;Example 18-bit computer architectures
*Possibly the most well-known 18-bit computer architectures are the [[wp:PDP-1|PDP-1]], [[wp:PDP-4|PDP-4]], [[wp:PDP-7|PDP-7]], [[wp:PDP-9|PDP-9]] and [[wp:PDP-15|PDP-15]] [[wp:|minicomputer]]s produced by [[wp:Digital Equipment Corporation|Digital Equipment Corporation]] from 1960 to 1975.
*[[wp:UNIVAC|UNIVAC]] produced a number of 18-bit computers, including the [[wp:UNIVAC 418|UNIVAC 418]] and several military systems.
*[[wp:IBM 7700 Data Acquisition System|IBM 7700 Data Acquisition System]] was an 18-bit computer.
*[[wp:BCL Molecular|BCL Molecular]]
*NASA Standard Spacecraft Computer [[wp:NSSC-1|NSSC-1]]
Many [[wp:Analog-to-digital converter|ADC]]s (analog to digital converters) have a 12-bit resolution.

;Computers with 24-bit words included:
*[[wp:ICT 1900|ICT 1900]] series and the [[wp:Harris Corporation|Harris]] H series.
*IBM [[wp:System/360|System/360]], announced in 1964, was a popular computer system with 24-bit addressing and [[wp:32-bit|32-bit]] general registers and arithmetic.
*IBM [[wp:PC/AT|PC/AT]] with an Intel [[wp:80286|80286]] processor using 24-bit addressing and 16-bit general registers and arithmetic
*[[wp:Apple Inc.|Apple]] [[wp:Macintosh 128k|Macintosh 128k]] with a Motorola [[wp:68000|68000]] processor featuring 24-bit addressing and 32-bit registers.
*[[wp:eZ80|eZ80]] is a microprocessor and microcontroller family with 24-bit registers and addressing that is binary compatible with the 8/16-bit [[wp:Z80|Z80]].

;Computers with 36-bit words included:
*[[wp:MIT|MIT]] [[wp:Lincoln Laboratory|Lincoln Laboratory]] [[wp:TX-2|TX-2]], 
*[[wp:IBM 700/7000 series|IBM 701/704/709/7090/7094]], 
*[[wp:UNIVAC|UNIVAC]] [[wp:UNIVAC 1103|1103]]/[[wp:UNIVAC 1103A|1103A]]/[[wp:UNIVAC 1105|1105]]/[[wp:UNIVAC 1100/2200 series|1100/2200]], 
*[[wp:GE-600 series|General Electric GE-600]]/[[wp:Honeywell 6000 series|Honeywell 6000]], 
*Digital Equipment Corporation [[wp:PDP-6|PDP-6]]/[[wp:PDP-10|PDP-10]] (as used in the [[wp:DECsystem-10|DECsystem-10]]/[[wp:DECSYSTEM-20|DECSYSTEM-20]])
*[[wp:Symbolics#The 3600 Series|Symbolics 3600 series]]. 
* Smaller machines like the [[wp:PDP-1|PDP-1]]/[[wp:PDP-9|PDP-9]]/[[wp:PDP-15|PDP-15]] used [[wp:18-bit|18-bit]] words, so a double word would be 36 bits. [[wp:EDSAC|EDSAC]] had a similar scheme.
;Computers with 60-bit [[wp:Word (data type)|words]] include:
*[[wp:CDC 6000|CDC 6000]] series
*some of the [[wp:CDC Cyber|CDC Cyber]] series.

Most of these were programmable in UPPERCASE only.

Indeed, unix will (used to) compile and run UPPERCASE only computers.... And the linux command stty still supports UPPERCASE only terminals. eg "stty iuclc olcuc"

Calendar specifically is an algorithm that is sufficiently complex that it requires assorted flow control, and I/O making is a reasonable example of how to work on a 6-bit character platform. CALENDAR also is specifically and uniquely relevant has it refers back the original "REAL" programmer.

I look forward to your <s>decision</s> discussion.

[[User:NevilleDNZ|NevilleDNZ]] 05:04, 31 May 2011 (UTC)


=== Discussion Cont.===
:Not decision, discussion. And you`ve made a great case! --[[User:Paddy3118|Paddy3118]] 05:43, 31 May 2011 (UTC)
Secretly I'm looking forward to the [[wp:Qubit#Bit_versus_qubit|Qubit]] and [[wp:Qutrit|Qutrit]] computers... When 32-bit and 64-bit computers will become old hat. :-) [[User:NevilleDNZ|NevilleDNZ]] 05:55, 31 May 2011 (UTC)

:But 6 bit could just as easily be all lower case as all uppercase.  And there are other characters that would also be eliminated if this were really being targeted at a 6 bits-per-character platform.  Meanwhile, some languages become unusable with this "all uppercase" constraint.  Mind you, it's a cute constraint.  But it's also silly.  --[[User:Rdm|Rdm]] 18:15, 31 May 2011 (UTC)

Actually - kind of - I agree with you... 6-bit is the criteria.  Although I have never heard of a strictly lower case hardware platform.

:I think that is because older devices such as the teletype ksr-33 (or a selectric with an APL type ball or any of a variety of others) would only print upper case.  (The teletype handled ascii but lower case letters looked like upper case characters.  Then there were several systems for encoding selectric characters (e.g. tilt/rotate codes).)  Meanwhile, there are numerous systems for dealing with mis-matched character set issues.  It gets crazy.  And I suspect there might be a reason people adopted full ASCII (with lower case) despite the too numerous alternatives.  --[[User:Rdm|Rdm]] 14:43, 2 June 2011 (UTC)

BTW: The first time I encountered such a computer, it was a [[wp:Prime Computer|Pr1me]] I remember trying being rather bamboozled about how to get the damned thing out of uppercase, including looking for a toggle under the keyboard.  It took a little while to dawn on me that it could ''only'' '''do''' upper case.  The [[wp:ZX80|ZX80]] code was also UPPERCASE, the ZX was so nice to program that the UPPERCASE restriction didn't seem to matter. 

There are a couple of other legacy options in unix that throw back to the UPPERCASE heritage.
* Unix provides the /bin/stty '''and''' the /bin/STTY command for chance where the keyboard only generates uppercase.
* On Unix, if you do a console login and accidentally type your "username" in UPPERCASE the getty assumed you were on a 6 bit terminal.  Linux still retains the "stty xcase" option for prefixing "\" on uppercase characters.  I do not recall any "stty sane" option. ;-) 

I wonder if K&R C ever handled UPPERCASE programs by mapping only characters prefixed with "\" to uppercase?  Hmm... I have my suspicions.

[[User:NevilleDNZ|NevilleDNZ]] 04:42, 1 June 2011 (UTC)

<s>Ye Gads... I just found out that FORTRAN programs on the PDP-10 were coded in 5-bits... the original [http://www.rickadams.org/adventure/e_downloads.html Adventure] game was written in 5-bit FORTRAN. [http://www.ifarchive.org/if-archive/games/source/advent-original.tar.gz original code]</s>

Wikipedia: A t-shirt was spotted at DECUS that said: "If you haven't got 36 bits, you're not working with a full [[wp:Digital Equipment Corporation|DEC]]."

[[User:NevilleDNZ|NevilleDNZ]] 05:14, 1 June 2011 (UTC)


=== Create another algorithm? ===
:The task description says "Create another algorithm", yet the Algol solutions are identical (except for the case).--[[User:Abu|Abu]] 15:06, 31 May 2011 (UTC)
I get your drift.... rewording task: Provide an algorithm ... presented entirely without lowercase. ThanX for pointing it out. [[User:NevilleDNZ|NevilleDNZ]] 03:58, 1 June 2011 (UTC)


=== Examples, BCD machines ===
;Example 5-bit computer architectures
* &nbsp; [[wp:IBM_1620|IBM 1620]]
* &nbsp; [[wp:IBM_1620|IBM 1710]]
* &nbsp; [[wp:IBM_1620|IBM 1720]]


The '''IBM 1620''' &nbsp; (and the others above) &nbsp; had a magnetic-core memory with BCD encoding.
<br>('''BCD''' &nbsp; = &nbsp; '''B'''inary '''C'''oded '''D'''ecimal.) 

Each memory location was &nbsp; (for the most part) &nbsp; a decimal digit.
  
Each memory location was comprised of five bits:
::* &nbsp; a flag bit (the '''F''' bit), &nbsp; used to indicate a negative number, &nbsp; an &nbsp; ''end-of-field'', &nbsp; or a &nbsp; ''carry''.
::* &nbsp; four bits (the '''8421''' bits), &nbsp; used to indicate which decimal digit was being represented.

Additionally, there was a check bit (the '''C''' bit), &nbsp; which isn't used to hold "data" and could not be set or accessed by a programmer. &nbsp; It was used as a parity bit. &nbsp; Every ''decimal digit'' had to have a odd number of bits set, including the '''C''' bit. &nbsp; If not odd, &nbsp; a "parity bit" error light was lit and the computer went into a wait (stopped) state.

There wasn't a method to indicate lowercase letters.

Characters used two consecutive decimal digits.

There were three special "numbers":
::::* &nbsp; '''1010''' &nbsp; a record mark
::::* &nbsp; '''1100''' &nbsp; a numeric blank (for punched cards)
::::* &nbsp; '''1111''' &nbsp; a group mark


All opcodes were two decimal digits.

::::::::::::::::::: -- [[User:Gerard Schildberger|Gerard Schildberger]] ([[User talk:Gerard Schildberger|talk]]) 02:12, 29 October 2020 (UTC)


==another ASCII version==

Here is a shorter ASCII version:
<pre>
                 ,-~~-.___.
                / ()=(()   \
               (   (        0
                \._\, ,----'
           ##XXXxxxxxxx
                  /  ---'~;
                 /    /~|-
               =(   ~~  |
         /~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\
        /_______________________\
       /_________________________\
      /___________________________\
         |____________________|
         |____________________|
         |____________________|
         |                    |
</pre>
-- [[User:Gerard Schildberger|Gerard Schildberger]] ([[User talk:Gerard Schildberger|talk]]) 18:31, 21 November 2013 (UTC)