Anonymous user
Talk:Window creation/X11: Difference between revisions
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::: So is the concern that over-abstraction of native Xlib types hides the internals of the protocol? --[[User:Short Circuit|Short Circuit]] 08:36, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
:::: '''NOT XLIB, X11!''' My view is that the distinct feature of this task as opposed to [[Creating a Window]] and all the other GUI tasks is that it is about working in the concepts defined by ''the X11 protocol''. If you're using Tk, you're using Tk's concepts rather than X11's (as far as I know). Unfortunately, as I don't ''really'' know X11 myself, I can't give good specific examples. --[[User:Kevin Reid|Kevin Reid]] 11:54, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
::::: The documentation for the native X11 protocol (which yes, I have read) states clearly that this is not a level intended for use in normal user programs. The documentation for Xlib ''also'' states that it is a layer that should be wrapped up by higher-level toolkits. Admittedly, when that was written they were thinking in terms of Xaw or perhaps Motif (or any other toolkit based on top of Xt; google it if you want the gruesome details) but Tk, GTK, Qt, wxWidgets, etc. all absolutely fit into that space envisaged. If you're writing raw X (Xlib, Xcb or the protocol itself) and you're not doing so because you're writing a toolkit, [http://xkcd.com/463/ you're doing something horribly wrong]. I guess this means I'm disputing the premise of this task on one level, yes, but it also means that I'm disputing the refusal to let people use toolkits to address it; that's how X11 was ''designed to work from the beginning''. I don't talk raw X11 for the same reason I don't write raw machine code, and I avoid raw Xlib as much as I can just like I try to not get down to the level of writing in assembly language. I have higher-level tools, and damnit I'm going to use them! --[[User:Dkf|Donal Fellows]] <small>(on a machine not his own, so not logging in)</small>
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