Rosetta Code

Talk:24 game: Difference between revisions

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Talk:24 game (view source)

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→‎unsolvable solutions for the 24 game: Attribution error
m (→‎unsolvable solutions for the 24 game: updated the list with a note.)
 
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<br>I found an error in the way the output file was massaged and created a list from the post-edited output file.
 
I have an updated complete list of the &nbsp; <strike>1,263</strike> &nbsp; 757 &nbsp; unsolvable numbers for the '''24''' game. &nbsp; &nbsp; -- [[User:Gerard Schildberger|Gerard Schildberger]] ([[User talk:Gerard Schildberger|talk]]) 00:2759, 56 January 2019 (UTC)
 
Here are the formatted (indexed) unsolvable numbers (the order of the digits are preserved) for the '''24''' game:
<pre style="font-size:85%">
 
1► 1111 1112 1113 1114 1115 1116 1117 1119 1121 1122 1123 1124 1125 1131 1132 1133 1141 1142 1151 1152 1159 1161 1167 1171 1176
(I'm in the process of re-running the list)</pre>
26► 1177 1178 1179 1187 1189 1191 1195 1197 1198 1199 1211 1212 1213 1214 1215 1221 1222 1223 1231 1232 1241 1251 1299 1311 1312
 
51► 1313 1321 1322 1331 1355 1411 1412 1421 1499 1511 1512 1519 1521 1535 1553 1557 1558 1575 1577 1585 1591 1611 1617 1667 1671
76► 1676 1677 1678 1687 1711 1716 1717 1718 1719 1755 1757 1761 1766 1767 1768 1771 1775 1776 1777 1778 1781 1786 1787 1791 1817
101► 1819 1855 1867 1871 1876 1877 1891 1899 1911 1915 1917 1918 1919 1929 1949 1951 1971 1981 1989 1991 1992 1994 1998 1999 2111
126► 2112 2113 2114 2115 2121 2122 2123 2131 2132 2141 2151 2199 2211 2212 2213 2221 2222 2226 2231 2262 2279 2297 2299 2311 2312
151► 2321 2334 2343 2411 2433 2511 2555 2556 2565 2599 2622 2655 2677 2729 2767 2776 2777 2779 2792 2797 2799 2919 2927 2929 2959
176► 2972 2977 2979 2991 2992 2995 2997 2999 3111 3112 3113 3121 3122 3131 3155 3211 3212 3221 3234 3243 3311 3324 3342 3358 3385
201► 3423 3432 3467 3476 3488 3515 3538 3551 3555 3577 3583 3647 3674 3746 3757 3764 3775 3835 3848 3853 3884 4111 4112 4121 4199
226► 4211 4233 4323 4332 4367 4376 4388 4459 4466 4467 4476 4495 4499 4549 4594 4637 4646 4647 4664 4673 4674 4736 4746 4763 4764
251► 4779 4797 4838 4883 4919 4945 4949 4954 4977 4991 4994 4999 5111 5112 5119 5121 5135 5153 5157 5158 5175 5177 5185 5191 5211
276► 5255 5256 5265 5299 5315 5338 5351 5355 5377 5383 5449 5494 5513 5517 5518 5525 5526 5531 5535 5552 5553 5557 5558 5562 5569
301► 5571 5575 5579 5581 5585 5596 5597 5625 5652 5659 5695 5715 5717 5737 5751 5755 5759 5771 5773 5777 5778 5787 5795 5799 5815
326► 5833 5851 5855 5877 5899 5911 5929 5944 5956 5957 5965 5975 5979 5989 5992 5997 5998 5999 6111 6117 6167 6171 6176 6177 6178
351► 6187 6222 6255 6277 6347 6374 6437 6446 6447 6464 6473 6474 6525 6552 6559 6595 6617 6644 6667 6671 6676 6677 6678 6687 6699
376► 6711 6716 6717 6718 6727 6734 6743 6744 6761 6766 6767 6768 6771 6772 6776 6777 6778 6779 6781 6786 6787 6788 6797 6817 6867
401► 6871 6876 6877 6878 6887 6955 6969 6977 6996 6999 7111 7116 7117 7118 7119 7155 7157 7161 7166 7167 7168 7171 7175 7176 7177
426► 7178 7181 7186 7187 7191 7229 7267 7276 7277 7279 7292 7297 7299 7346 7357 7364 7375 7436 7446 7463 7464 7479 7497 7515 7517
451► 7537 7551 7555 7559 7571 7573 7577 7578 7587 7595 7599 7611 7616 7617 7618 7627 7634 7643 7644 7661 7666 7667 7668 7671 7672
476► 7676 7677 7678 7679 7681 7686 7687 7688 7697 7711 7715 7716 7717 7718 7726 7727 7729 7735 7749 7751 7753 7757 7758 7761 7762
501► 7766 7767 7768 7769 7771 7772 7775 7776 7777 7778 7779 7781 7785 7786 7787 7788 7789 7792 7794 7796 7797 7798 7799 7811 7816
526► 7817 7857 7861 7866 7867 7868 7871 7875 7876 7877 7878 7879 7886 7887 7888 7897 7899 7911 7922 7927 7929 7947 7955 7959 7967
551► 7972 7974 7976 7977 7978 7979 7987 7989 7992 7995 7997 7998 7999 8117 8119 8155 8167 8171 8176 8177 8191 8199 8335 8348 8353
576► 8384 8438 8483 8515 8533 8551 8555 8577 8599 8617 8667 8671 8676 8677 8678 8687 8711 8716 8717 8757 8761 8766 8767 8768 8771
601► 8775 8776 8777 8778 8779 8786 8787 8788 8797 8799 8834 8843 8867 8876 8877 8878 8887 8888 8889 8898 8899 8911 8919 8959 8977
626► 8979 8988 8989 8991 8995 8997 8998 8999 9111 9115 9117 9118 9119 9129 9149 9151 9171 9181 9189 9191 9192 9194 9198 9199 9219
651► 9227 9229 9259 9272 9277 9279 9291 9292 9295 9297 9299 9419 9445 9449 9454 9477 9491 9494 9499 9511 9529 9544 9556 9557 9565
676► 9575 9579 9589 9592 9597 9598 9599 9655 9669 9677 9696 9699 9711 9722 9727 9729 9747 9755 9759 9767 9772 9774 9776 9777 9778
701► 9779 9787 9789 9792 9795 9797 9798 9799 9811 9819 9859 9877 9879 9888 9889 9891 9895 9897 9898 9899 9911 9912 9914 9918 9919
726► 9921 9922 9925 9927 9929 9941 9944 9949 9952 9957 9958 9959 9966 9969 9972 9975 9977 9978 9979 9981 9985 9987 9988 9989 9991
751► 9992 9994 9995 9996 9997 9998 9999
</pre>
I'd be interested if anyone would verify that all the numbers above are unsolvable for the '''24''' game. &nbsp; &nbsp; -- [[User:Gerard Schildberger|Gerard Schildberger]] ([[User talk:Gerard Schildberger|talk]]) 23:31, 3 January 2019 (UTC)
 
Line 112 ⟶ 142:
 
:Um. You may want to re-read the task rules, specifically the one stating "The order of the digits when given does not have to be preserved."
 
 
:: I don't need to re-read the task rules, I programmed the REXX program which does NOT preserve the order of digits when presenting solutions, but it does honor the original number being processed and shows (all) the solutions for that number, for any order of its digits. &nbsp; The task's requirement said that it &nbsp; ''does not not have to be preserved'', &nbsp; it didn't say &nbsp; ''should not be preserved''. &nbsp; I choose to preserve the order of digits for the REXX entry. &nbsp; &nbsp; -- [[User:Gerard Schildberger|Gerard Schildberger]] ([[User talk:Gerard Schildberger|talk]]) 00:27, 5 January 2019 (UTC)
 
:::Who said anything about REXX? Or even the actual task code? My point was: if say, 1678 is unsolvable, then so is 1687, 1768, 1786, 1867, 1876, 6178, 6187, 6718, 6781, 6817, 6871, 7168, 7186, 7618, 7681, 7816, 7861, 8167, 8176, 8617, 8671, 8716 & 8761, and there isn't any point in listing all of them '''unless the solver is only checking numbers with preserved order'''. Like I said, there is only a total of 495 unique combinations of 4 non-zero digits. Of those, 91 are unsolvable for 24. Even if you count all possible permutations of each combination, there are only 757 unsolvable "numbers". Not sure where you are getting the 1263 from. --[[User:Thundergnat|Thundergnat]] ([[User talk:Thundergnat|talk]]) 14:11, 5 January 2019 (UTC)
:::: I said about REXX. &nbsp; It is the REXX entry that I was referring to. &nbsp; As for the 1,263 number, that was in error and the number that I got for unsolvable numbers is 757 &nbsp; (see the above updated list). &nbsp; &nbsp; -- [[User:Gerard Schildberger|Gerard Schildberger]] ([[User talk:Gerard Schildberger|talk]]) 00:59, 6 January 2019 (UTC)
 
:::Some further exposition about digit reordering. OK, you say the REXX version preserves order because the instructions permit reordering but don't mandate it. But those instructions '''ARE FOR THE PLAYER, NOT THE PROGRAMMER'''. If the solver can't or won't handle digit reordering, you'll run into situation like this: you offer the player 1399, and she says: "Aha! I am permitted to reorder digits so: (9 - 1) / 3) * 9 = 24". The REXX entry will say '''NOPE! INCORRECT, 1399 is UNSOLVABLE.''' (There ''are'' no solutions for those digits in that order.) The player is going to say "Are you f'n kidding me?" and go investigate some other language. If it is permitted, you must make allowances for it. --[[User:Thundergnat|Thundergnat]] ([[User talk:Thundergnat|talk]]) 15:14, 5 January 2019 (UTC)
 
:::: Er, no. &nbsp; You are mistaken about what you say the REXX program will say. &nbsp; For your clarification, here is a screenshot of an actual '''24''' game &nbsp; (with &nbsp; 1139 &nbsp; being the digits to use), &nbsp; and note that &nbsp; '''24''' &nbsp; is the name of the REXX program, &nbsp; and that the &nbsp; '''+1139''' &nbsp; argument forces the REXX program to use &nbsp; '''1139''' &nbsp; (instead of some random digits) &nbsp; for the required digits to be used, &nbsp; and, of course, the digits may be &nbsp; ''in any order''. &nbsp; My (auto-generated to fit the screen) DOS "prompt" is two (wrapped) lines:
<pre>
─────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────01/05/2019 18:33:44
c:\►24 +1139 ◄■■■■■■■■■■■ what the non-cussing user entered.
 
Using the digits 1399, enter an expression that equals 24 (? or QUIT):
(9-1)/3) * 9 ◄■■■■■■■■■■■ what the non-cussing user entered.
mismatched ()
 
Using the digits 1399, enter an expression that equals 24 (? or QUIT):
(9-1)/3 * 9 ◄■■■■■■■■■■■ what the non-cussing user entered.
 
┌─────────────────────┐
│ │
│ congratulations ! │
│ │
└─────────────────────┘
 
 
─────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────01/05/2019 18:34:16
c:\►
</pre>
:::: The REXX didn't get too excited about the mismatched parenthesis and kept it's cool. &nbsp; &nbsp; -- [[User:Gerard Schildberger|Gerard Schildberger]] ([[User talk:Gerard Schildberger|talk]]) 00:59, 6 January 2019 (UTC)
 
 
:That being the case, there are only 495 unique combinations of 4 non-zero digits. This is ALL of them.
Line 159 ⟶ 220:
 
:: It wasn't the filtering that caused the error, but my post-editing process. &nbsp; The REXX program did, in fact, find solutions for &nbsp; 1164 &nbsp; (and it's variants). &nbsp; &nbsp; -- [[User:Gerard Schildberger|Gerard Schildberger]] ([[User talk:Gerard Schildberger|talk]]) 00:27, 5 January 2019 (UTC)
 
Hi guys, I checked <strike>Gerards</strike>Thundergnats results with one of the Python solvers and seems fine to me :-)<br>
--[[User:Paddy3118|Paddy3118]] ([[User talk:Paddy3118|talk]]) 11:33, 5 January 2019 (UTC)
 
:Really!? --[[User:Thundergnat|Thundergnat]] ([[User talk:Thundergnat|talk]]) 14:11, 5 January 2019 (UTC)
 
I got:
<pre> Thundergnat Stated UNsolvables: 0 solved, 91 unsolved
Thundergnat Stated Solvables: 404 solved, 0 unsolved
My determination of all order-independent 4 digit numbers: 404 solved, 91 unsolved</pre>
--[[User:Paddy3118|Paddy3118]] ([[User talk:Paddy3118|talk]]) 11:39, 5 January 2019 (UTC)
 
: Oh. Yeah, except that isn't the list Gerard posted, that was mine. Gerards list (which he has since deleted) had 2501 "unsolvable" numbers in it where '''at least''' 1744 of them were, in fact, solvable.
 
:: My apologies; attribution changed. --[[User:Paddy3118|Paddy3118]] ([[User talk:Paddy3118|talk]]) 19:25, 6 January 2019 (UTC)
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